Thanks Boris! Looks like I'll need to change the name of KP28 when I add
KK51 as the airport ob to our database.
*Steve Adams | AWIS Weather Services*
888.798.9955 | sadams@xxxxxxxx | www.awis.com
On Fri, Sep 4, 2026, 8:53 PM Boris A. Konon <trwplusa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Best I can tell, and going back some decades concerning P28, these sites
> are
> not co-located. I would caution using AI query for stuff like this, as I
> have
> found they often conflate things and make odd assumptions, even when
> clear documentation exists that should make it easy for AI.
>
> By convention, an airport location can not have two seperate 3 or 4 letter
> IDs.
>
> KP28 was an ASOS installed in the 90s to replace the legacy AMOS equipment,
> which was not located at the airport. Its WMO ID is 72572. I checked
> this
> against a couple of different databases, and KP28 is located at:
>
> 37.299722, -98.583056 469m
> https://www.ogimet.com/display_metars2.php?lang=en&lugar=kp28
>
> KK51 is location at:
> 37.265411,-98.547906 472m
> https://www.airnav.com/airport/K51
>
> So they are actually about 2.8 mi apart.
>
> Is this a big deal? Yes, esp. for aviation operations and forensic
> meteorology.
> If there were an accident at the airport, getting wx obs at the exact
> location
> are paramount. Also, when preparing TAFs, a current observation is needed
> at the airport in question.
>
> *"It also includes extra federal data fields like Sea Level Pressure
> (SLP102) and *
> *hourly precise temperature decimals (T02500211)."*
>
> Concerning hourly precise temp decimals, this is not exclusive to ASOS.
> AWOS can
> have this, it just depends on the type of AWOS. There are at least 8
> types of AWOS
> out there, tiers that give different amounts of wx data.
>
> KP28 may indeed be decommissioned (I'll check w/ the DDC WFO). A number
> of NWS
> ASOS not at airports have beeb decommissioned in the last several years.
> KMQE,
> KGDP, and KP92 are among them. The reason apparently is that there enough
> privately-owned/run wx obs sites now at these locations that can serve as
> a more
> cost-effective replacement. All these non-airport ASOS were installed at
> a time
> when wx stations were much fewer overall. Now, that is not an issue.
>
> Boris
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2026 at 1:42 PM Tyle, Kevin R <ktyle@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Here’s what Gemini has to say about this:
>>
>>
>>
>> *The observations are indeed distinct because KK51 and KP28 actually
>> represent two completely separate, co-located weather stations operating at
>> the Medicine Lodge Airport. [1 <https://weathercams.faa.gov/stations>]*
>>
>> *Even though they share the same airfield, they are managed under
>> different programs, utilize different hardware, and broadcast
>> independently. [1 <https://weathercams.faa.gov/stations>]*
>>
>> *Here is exactly why those METAR strings look so different:*
>>
>> *1. Federal ASOS vs. Non-Federal AWOS*
>>
>> - *KP28 is a Federal ASOS (Automated Surface Observing System)**. It
>> is managed federally and generates standard hourly routine observations
>> (typically at 56 minutes past the hour, as seen in your 040956Z, 041056Z,
>> etc. stamps). [1 <https://weathercams.faa.gov/stations>]*
>> - *KK51 is a Non-Federal AWOS-3P (Automated Weather Observing System)**.
>> It is a state- or locally-owned station that broadcasts updates much more
>> frequently—roughly every 20 minutes (stamped at :15, :35, and :55 past the
>> hour). [1 <https://weathercams.faa.gov/stations>]*
>>
>> *2. Different Sensor Capabilities (AO1 vs. AO2)*
>>
>> *If you look closely at the remarks (RMK) at the end of each log, you
>> will find the smoking gun for why the data varies:*
>>
>> - *KP28 reports AO1**: This means the federal station does not have a
>> precipitation discriminator sensor. It cannot automatically tell the
>> difference between rain and snow. It also includes extra federal data
>> fields like Sea Level Pressure (SLP102) and hourly precise temperature
>> decimals (T02500211).*
>> - *KK51 reports AO2**: The local AWOS system does feature a
>> precipitation discriminator sensor. Because the hardware setups are
>> different and sit at slightly different physical spots on the field, their
>> calibrated sensors will register tiny micro-climate differences in wind
>> gusts, dew point calculations, and altimeter settings (A2991 vs A2990).*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1220+Washington+Ave,+Room+419+%0D%0A+Albany,+NY+12226?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________
>> Kevin Tyle, M.S.; Manager of Departmental Computing
>>
>> NSF ACCESS Campus Champion
>> Dept. of Atmospheric & Environmental Sciences
>>
>> UAlbany ETEC Bldg - Harriman Campus
>>
>> 1220 Washington Ave, Room 419
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1220+Washington+Ave,+Room+419+%0D%0A+Albany,+NY+12226?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> Albany, NY 12226
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1220+Washington+Ave,+Room+419+%0D%0A+Albany,+NY+12226?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> ktyle@xxxxxxxxxx | 518-442-4578 <(518)%20442-4578> | @nywxguy |
>> he/him/his
>> _________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* data-curation <data-curation-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> *On
>> Behalf Of *Stephen Adams
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 4, 2026 1:34 PM
>> *To:* Boris A. Konon <trwplusa@xxxxxxxxx>
>> *Cc:* data-curation <data-curation@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> *Subject:* Re: [data-curation] New Wx Reporting Sites
>>
>>
>>
>> Boris,
>>
>> A question on KK51 Medicine Lodge. I'm showing an ICAO for that airport
>> as KP28. Still getting metars for KP28. Also getting metars for KK51, but
>> they're different than KP28. Can you explain?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Steve Adams | AWIS Weather Services*
>>
>> 888.798.9955 <(888)%20798-9955> | sadams@xxxxxxxx | www.awis.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2026 at 7:06 AM Boris A. Konon <trwplusa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> *METAR:*
>> K4MD - Baltimore/Pier 7 US MD
>> https://www.airnav.com/airport/4MD
>>
>> KCHT - Chillicothe US MO
>> https://www.airnav.com/airport/KCHT
>>
>> KK51 - Medicine Lodge US KS
>> https://www.airnav.com/airport/K51
>>
>> KM46 - Colstrip US MT
>> https://www.airnav.com/airport/M46
>>
>> PACE - Central US AK
>> https://www.airnav.com/airport/PACE
>>
>> PACI - Chalkyitsik US AK
>> https://www.airnav.com/airport/PACI
>>
>> METAR Site ID Change:
>> K2V5 to KRYA - Wray US CO
>>
>>
>> *SYNOP:*
>> 35129 - Kandyagash KZ
>>
>> https://oscar.wmo.int/surface/#/search/station/stationReportDetails/0-398-0-35129
>>
>> 42364 - Etawah IN
>> https://www.ogimet.com/display_synops2.php?lang=en&lugar=42364
>>
>> 42878 - unknown IN
>>
>> 63726 - Kabale UG
>>
>> https://oscar.wmo.int/surface/#/search/station/stationReportDetails/0-20000-0-63726
>>
>> 63735 - Ukerewe TZ
>>
>> https://oscar.wmo.int/surface/#/search/station/stationReportDetails/0-834-20000-63735
>>
>> 83004 - San Paulo/IAG BR (previously unknown)
>>
>> https://oscar.wmo.int/surface/#/search/station/stationReportDetails/0-76-0-3550308000W83004
>>
>> 85312 - Monteagudo BO (previously unknown)
>>
>> https://oscar.wmo.int/surface/#/search/station/stationReportDetails/0-20000-0-85312
>>
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